archive

Saturday, April 8, 2006

Whom the Lord Loves

Moved here, at Historic Christianity.



J

8 comments:

Miroslav said...

"We don’t have a choice, about the answer. This is the predestination part. We do have a choice about believing the answer. That’s the free will."

I be confused.

The answer is predestined?

Jack H said...

No. There are catagories of things in which we have no say, no power, no influence. Then there are things over which we have control. The unalterable nature of world, like the unalterable destiny of those predestined to salvation or the garbage heap, are in the first group. How we respond to what we cannot change, is in the second. It's that *children worrying about things that adults understand cannot be changed* idea. We cannot argue the mind of God, and have no business attempting it. Goes back to Jesus, saying, "Just you do what is right."

It's a formulation that requires some wisdom and humilty - got any I could have?

In case that's not clear, the answer is "Obey." Screw that, right? I'll do what I want.


J

Miroslav said...

ok. I'm with ya now. thanks for the clarification.

Job's answer, Jesus simple command, and the clay and the potter.

Happy Easter J. I hope it finds you well.

paul asjes said...

"He must be true to His word. He must be true to his nature – unchanging. God is the least free thing there could be."

how can God offer us freedom if he is not free? idk, maybe that is not it, i just keep thinking about his "God is the least free"

Jack H said...

A bad analogy: How can a RC priest marry a couple if he himself cannot be married?

Consider what freedom actually is. It's not an ability to do impossible things, but to choose between real possiblities. I could turn right, or left. I'm free to do it. It's about the ability to act on choices. Now consider God. There is a perfect choice. That's the one God must take. No choice involved at all, is there. Freedom involves the possiblity to be wrong. Not an option, for God. Seems almost crystaline of him, doesn't it. But that's us, anthropomorphizing him.

We have the choice of being less perfect, or more - less like him, or more. Because we can be wrong, we are free. But by my reckoning, "freedom" doesn't seem to be one of God's attributes.

J

paul asjes said...

well, i'm glad i'm not God, i guess.

paul asjes said...

oh, i was reading Hosea 11 last night and verse 11 stuck out to me, it seemed like God changed. And I was a little confused about who the speaker was.

Jack H said...

I think the key to Hos 11 is verse 9. God is both just and merciful, and there is a conflict between these two aspects. How are they resolved? The fact that there IS a conflict is what seperates God from an unchanging, cold and inexorable computer.

He is angry, here, but the right thing, the perfect thing to do in this specific, is to be merciful. You and I might make another choice. We'd be wrong. That's what God means, I think, when he says in v. 9, "For I am God, and not a man." It's not that God cannot "come with terror," but that he won't in this case, because it wouldn't be the best thing, ultimately.

You've raised a good point though, Paul. I'm reminded that God will "repent" himself, as in Dt 32;36, Ps 135:14, and Jer 26:13. I suggest the meaning here is he will "relent" in his justice, for mercy. It's the same idea as when God says he brings "evil" - the meaning is that he allows "calamity". In any case, there's no need for change, in this. It's part of a plan.


Best,

J